barack obama, i heard, on that debate stage, was the barack obama i have been listening to now for four years. he sounded very much like himself. i don't think he was terribly bad. i think he has a very weak case and i think the circumstances in the country present the challenging candidate with all kinds of opportunities. mitt romney was on his game and took advantage of those opportunities. the president is saddled with weak circumstances and therefore a weak case and it's not surprising to me that he didn't argue it very well and the other thing is, despite the -- his reputation as being a world cass orator, and maybe he is with' set speech but there is not a lot of evidence he was a great debater and put them together an i don't think it is as big a shock as the president's supporters on the left feel. i think they thought he was ten feet tall and he's not ten feet tall and never has been. >> chris: mara, about the specific issue of -- doing fact checking of romney and continue to press. i don't think it is accurate, the $5 trillion tax cut, they talk about, well in fact the place w